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And to bring a few other of our storytellers in. Um, with a black belt in karate. An experiment is being conducted in the elegant interaction laboratory at Yale University. The questionnaires they filled out are part of the Milgram archive at Yale. But if you think that's the right thing. Now you're saying actually that you could read that, that very dark fact, as being actually evidence of something quite- quite noble. And so in 1918, Fritz Haber gets the Nobel Prize. These violent delights tienen fin violento. Clara comes from the same town. What you know, you know.". He was in this state of fury, he said, and instead of hitting his wife, he smashed his fist into the bathroom mirror, and then realized that he had to leave the house, or he was going to do damage to her. Up until that point, Gary refused to say that "From the minute I picked these women up I wanted to kill them." Now what you need to understand about Alex Haslam is that he hates it when interviewers only want to talk about the baseline study. This story made us wonder is David's friend, is he unusual? And he was wearing a fur coat-. Radiolab is supported by Audible. And so I went up to the bedroom to find him and he was in a rage. He's a man adrift. With my arm. So every day, they would bring them into this conference room-, This is a continuation of an interview with Gary Leon Ridgeway-. And then, in experiment number four, when the teacher has to hold the learner's hand down-. This is basically what Stanley Milgram set out to test. And he believed it. Dan Charles, Sam Keen, Latif Nasser, Fred Koffman and Fritz Stern. Did members of Haber's family die in the concentration camps? So there's a way in which there's a touch of spark of humanity. Would you really? Nobody had done what he was about to do on the scale that he was about to do it. I don't think I ever had a fantasy that anatomically specific where I would see the part of the other person that I was going to stab or plan it like that. There's trench warfare, it gets bogged down and Haber has an idea. As soon as it did, soldiers began to convulse. RadioLab is supported by Rocket Mortgage by Quicken Loans. You know what? For when the subjects didn't want to continue? He gets promoted to the rank of Captain. It's very important because if you ask university undergraduates what does the Milgram study show, they will invariably say something like "They show that people obey orders" okay? Hi, I'm Robert Krulwich. Does he- is he saying what I think he's saying? What my father and his colleagues know is that something was done to these bodies; many of them after they were murdered. We asked, "Who do you think about killing?" He gets promoted to the rank of captain-. My dad said, "I don't want to talk about it." Nitrogen is an essential part of amino acids and proteins. This is Radiolab, and today we're going to get back, so to speak. 2012-06-22 . Walk- walk away. But that's not what he found. Give me two more minutes. But in a famous incident, one of England's leading scientists refuses to shake his hand. This episode was produced with help from Carter Hodge. With help from Shima Oliaee, Carter Hodge, and Lisa Yeger. And it becomes Zyklon B, the killing gas of the concentration camps. Well, we're trying to think about what goes on in the mind of a bad person. Clara, also from Breslau, also from a Jewish family. This is Jeff Jensen and he's a reporter in LA. When you call someone then you're kind of done with them. Yeah. Stanley Milgram had four scripted prods that he wrote out for his experimenters for when the subjects didn't want to continue. And it's a craft, but it's a craft with consequences, and to approach it with kind of crazy joy? The story of Job is that one day God and Satan are having a conversation, and they're saying, "Have you checked out Job? The Bad Show. He's working with chemicals. He's bad. Right. So the subjects seem willing to shock another human being, but as soon as you say, "It's an order.". Our main story is the haunting tale of a chimp named Lucy. And everyone thought, "Well, we know the solution.". Well that's to [inaudible 00:19:32], just cut it out. But even with all that gore and horribleness, there was often a moment that people waited for; and in a way we wait for it still, even now. Whatever it is. And then, she said, "I actually did this. Go on please. Now the volunteer couldn't see the guy he was shocking, but he could definitely hear him. And they ask for it to be reformulated to take out the warning smell. And later that night, after party, Haber takes a bunch of sleeping pills, goes to sleep. His was the first generation when a young Jewish boy could truly imagine that he could just be a regular part of that society, he could do anything. Yeah, but those are fantasies, they're some of them actually seem like-, Okay, this is a 20 year old female. She had something else on her mind. Like, maybe he thinks Othello is sleeping with his wife, we're not sure. Okay. According to James, he's not the baddest in Shakespeare or in life because ultimately the play offers up a reason for his nastiness. Yes, this is one of the things that sparked my interest in the topic of murder. With a history of industry leading online lending technology developed in the heart of Detroit, Rocket Mortgage is changing the game. But, you know, over the entire ocean there's a lot of gold dissolved into the sea. "Definitely yes.". He even schemes against his own wife. And he says, "Can I come over and sleep on your couch? I think I call it [prince-nez 00:28:23], so I'm not sure. This has allowed the world to have seven billion people. That's one of the things we have to know, and that's why it's okay to let it out. All right. Trivalent. "The experiment requires that you continue.". It's absolutely essential that you continue. Is that nitrogen is [tryvalent 00:31:48]. Yet you go into this anyway, knowing full well that it could-, "That is true. You mean they're looking at 20 million people hungry? Of course nobody wants to be killing other people. So Stanley Milgram actually begins these experiments the same year that Adolf Eichmann goes on trial for Nazi war crimes. And it gets even more disturbing for my father as the conversation suddenly pivots to another victim. And my father wasn't buying it. It is still trotted out to explain everything from hazing to war crimes. And it gets even more disturbing for my father as the conversation suddenly pivots to another victim. He says, "Well, we can drive those enemy soldiers out of trenches with gas. And also, thank you to Alex Haslam, Professor of Psychology at the University of Exeter. Yeah. And actually, this wasn't just the German thing. To the best of your memory, which word was matched with nice? He buried them, or left their bodies in these little clumps in the woods-. Go to audible.com/radiolab or text Radiolab to 500500 for a free 30-day trial and a few audiobook. And it's kind of surprising. Shoots herself in the chest, and is found by her son. Despite the chlorine gas, he didn't intend for that to happen. So, in the end where do you come down? How do you tell the real baddies from the rest of us? That's radio producer Ben Walker. He buried them or left their bodies in these little clumps in the woods. And I devoted one class session to the topic of homicide and why people kill. even past when they were screaming in pain. At this point, David's moved onto a new university and he's teaching an introductory psychology class. God, 'cause it's like we started with this experiment that we all see as evidence of human's latent capacity of evil. And he spends five years and a futile effort-, Sounds insane. According to some accounts, as they crept across no man's land. And my dad said, "I don't want to talk about it." Okay, well actually the one thing that the study really doesn't show is that people obey orders. Stanley Milgram took electric shock very seriously. And you have a number of chemical reactions. He had snapped. And she said, "My ex boyfriend. Alex Haslem, Professor of Psychology at the University of Exeter. But in all of these other scenarios, they don't. Natural deposits would be like seaweed or-, Actually two nations in South America went to war-. And that's all the difference in the world. And he ran them through something like what you and I just did. Was he grappling with something? I mean, that was makebelieve, but if you could somehow get a real Iago in the room and subject that person to questioning, and really get him to sort of fess up as to why they did it, would that make a difference? If those two participants refused to go on-, Saying like, "I don't want to kill a guy. I- I- I- well (laughs). Yeah, well (laughing). In the other room, there was a guy who he called the learner who is supposed to have memorized some words. I'm not saying a word. All right. And then, the final one. But this was a moment in German history, he says, when Jews had a decent amount of freedom. And you've done this how many times before. But we will do it on our own if we think it's good.". And Hitler takes over. You know, "I- I- I Harley, you know, regret the fact that I killed a young maiden or defamed the king" or whatever it is. Nice sky? With higher and higher voltage. Haber, it's unknown what happens for the rest of the evening, but it is a well documented fact that the very next morning-. Episode Discussion: The Bad Show. Unusually so in those times. He's standing there on the front, pushing the gas into the lungs of other human beings, admittedly, it's a ware, but still. He goes straight to the German high command, and he pitches this idea. You're cut down before then. We, as onlookers to this study, we have this kind of godlike sort of vision of like, "Well, of course, what they're doing is wrong." So Jeff wrote this book because his father, Tom Jensen, was one of the lead detectives tracking Gary Ridgeway. Like, you walked into the room, what- what do you find? And maybe forces hydrogen in the tank. He's bald, he has a potbelly, he has these pince-nez spectacles, he's chomping on a Virginian cigar, he was always smoking these Virginian cigars and he's wearing a fur coat. Uh, if I don't leave my house right now, I'm going to kill her." This is Radio Lab, and today elements. "I'm willing to help in a worthwhile experiment.". The thing is that I do have a new boyfriend, but my ex-boyfriend doesn't know that yet, and I'm terrified that he'll do what he says. He is a solder, he works for a general, the general's name is Othello. And I was just astonished-. The subjects range in occupation from corporation presidents, to Good Humor men, and plumbers. You know, on the other hand, I mean, if you look at the grand calculus, people he's he-helped or fed versus people he's killed, I mean, he's got fed billions of people, I don't know that you could entirely call him bad. And he goes home for a few days. Haber starts thinking, "In order to do this we need to pressure this, we need to put it under a lot of pressure.". What follows is this ongoing conversation between Job and his friends about why does this happen? Radiolab is supported by Audible. And I heard about him from science writer, Sam Kean. And I think what we want out of the why is meaning. Well, I can use that same process to make explosives because the thing that you put into the ground to grow more food is also the thing you can explode to make a bomb.". So, he starts experimenting. Y-P-R-E-S, Actually the Americans called it [inaudible 00:36:42]. That's correct, because it takes such energy and pressure to separate it, its trivalent bond is so strong that when it comes back together, that energy is released, it can be used for life or death. Of course, nobody wants to be killing other people; we realize this is hard work. Then the executioner castrates you, cuts you open, and takes out your internal organs, and then separate your head; which is put on a post. No. That's it? And they're saying, "Have you checked out Job? Hi, this is Lauren from Winnipeg. And, you know, my view about human nature is that it affords infinite potential for lightness and dark. There's a pause and my father just says. Fat- commit them to memory? You're bad." I'm gonna-. And every time that guy got a word wrong-. Then a few months later, he started calling me trying to get back together, but I didn't want to. Nothing to be ashamed of. But the generals were not all that convinced? Hi, I'm Robert Krulwich. And then, walks away from his child and his wife dead in the garden and says-. Radiolab: Lucy. Is there a way to explain why some people act the way they do and others don't?". I mean, that's a pretty heady thing for, you know, a Jewish kid from Breslau to be hobnobbing with the Emperor and cabinet ministers. 1933 comes and Hitler takes over. This is just a tsunami of evil that passes through the play. And so, I ex- expanded the sample where we asked about 5000 people. He brings her up as an example of a- of a woman that he actually had strong feelings for. But the generals were not all that convinced. Under extreme, extreme pressure at high temperature, and then he forces hydrogen into the tank. And on June 13th, 2003, Gary was secretly taken out of his jail cell and brought to this sort of very nondescript concrete ugly office building and, um, over the next six months from June to early December. David always known this guy to be pretty mild mannered. He works for a general. Because it takes such energy and pressure to separate it This trivalent bond is so strong that when it comes back together, that energy that's released, it could be used for life or death. Whether the learner likes it or not, we must-, What's interesting is that how all of these struggles, all of them-, Play out the same way. So in the end, where do you come down? And if they didn't go on, if they resisted, the experimenter would break out prod number two. You wouldn't though, would you really? No, but there's part of me says, "You know, here's a guy who just wanted to do everything better than had ever been done before." I can't quite place him-. He's such a puzzle to me. Read these words. But 75% of the people who worked for him at the institute, they were Jewish. And Christensen, I dated her several times bef- three times- two times before. So, around the turn of the century for German scientists like Haber, this was the challenge. He claimed they were in the middle of a sex act, he would get distracted, something would happen, he just kind of went crazy, he had snapped; and almost blaming the victims. And he was someone who had very big ambitions. Yeah. So, let me just get that ov- I mean-, So, again, the baseline study is the one where 65% of the volunteers-. Let not your sorrows die though I am dead. "Well why can't you deal with it in a normal way?". Within minutes the gas reached the Allied side. He brings her up as an example of a woman that he actually had strong feelings for. No, because if you couldn't afford a ticket for a play, you'd seen all the plays, in the 1500s, you could always go to a public hanging. But every time the experimenter pulled out the fourth prod And this was confirmed when the experiment was redone in 2006; total disobedience. Uh, so what happened to David that night with his friend got him really curious about murder and badness and all these things we're thinking about. They're trying to be good participants. 10s, 10, 15, 20 times. And in January of 1984, the Green River Task Force was formed, and my father was recruited to the task force. All right. He actually was very humiliated, uh, that Germany had lost. Because you are sullied by them. I invited him for dinner. You know, just because of a mathematical summing up. Continue using the last switch on the board, please. If you breathed it in, it sort of irritates your lungs to the extent that they sort of fills up with fluid so quickly that you sort of drowning in your own phlegm. September 15, 2022 Radiolab for Kids and WNYC Studios present Terrestrials, a six-episode miniseries hosted by Lulu Miller (co-host of Radiolab . The authoritative record of New York Public Radios programming is the audio record. After all he knows what he can stand. The Germans on one side, the French, the Canadians and the British on the other. He would give all his baddies at least one moment where they could be understood. Our food source then moves into our bodies. Like, he didn't intend for that to happen. But that's just a- those are fantasies. With all of the black-and-white moralizing in our world today, we decided to bring back an old show about the little bit of bad that's in all of us.and the little bit of really, really bad that's in some of us. That's correct. And later that night after the party Haber takes a bunch of sleeping pills 'cause he's asleep, um, and she takes his service revolver. I thought about grabbing a knife quickly and stabbing him in the chest repeatedly until he was dead. Check out the Casper or the Wave mattress with a support system that mirrors your body shape. Radiolab weaves stories and science into sound and music-rich documentaries. Okay, it's all right, but we've got to know that. Although once again we're getting a little ahead of ourselves.

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